Source: knitsofacto.blogspot.com via Jeannette on Pinterest
I think I need a lie down. I’ve been reading and thinking and thinking and reading, dotting about the blogosphere checking facts and ideas, finding answers to questions I didn't know I had, and blaming this Sue, or maybe this Sue. My head hurts!
Everyone’s talking about Pinterest today, so I thought I would too.
I trained in art and design, I’m used to working with mood boards and mood books, still do, and that’s kinda’ what Pinterest is, isn’t it? A communal mood board of unprecedented dimensions? Shared inspiration? Harmless fun?
But the Sues, along with many others, me included, are rightly concerned that Pinterest content doesn’t always link back to the copyright holder. Clean up your pins they say, and if the source can’t be found then delete them. Don’t pin unless you’re sure that the originator of the image will be credited.
This is what Pinterest has to say about that: always credit your sources and don’t pin unless you own the rights to the stuff that you’re pinning, or have been authorised to pin it by the person who does, or know for sure that it's no longer copyright*.
And that’s not all they say that might surprise you if you haven’t read the Terms of Use, which are hidden away in the Copyright section of About. This is the scary bit: pinning your stuff indicates your acceptance that worldwide, irrevocably, perpetually and without payment of royalties your images, and often by extension your ideas, can be used, copied, adapted, modified, distributed, licensed, sold and ‘otherwise exploited’ by Cold Brew Labs – the company behind Pinterest – and you can do nothing about it*. Nada. Zilch.
In other words, if I pin your image to my Pinterest board it will be assumed that you authorised me to do so, and in consequence Pinterest has carte blanche to do with that image what they will. If you’re not happy about that you'll be pointed in my direction.
You might want to read this, this, and finally this, which was posted earlier today on Business Insider and concludes that "Pinterest seems designed almost entirely for the theft of others' copyrighted material."
Source: knitsofacto.blogspot.com via Claire @ Happy Elastic on Pinterest
And then there's this, from director Jim Jarmusch ...
"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. And don’t bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: “It’s not where you take things from - it’s where you take them to."Like I said, my head is spinning!
Update 18.02. Gosh, the Pinterest debate really is on everyone's lips! I'm so enjoying reading what everyone has to say about this ... please keep those comments coming guys.
Wendy has written a great post on the topic just today, and has linked to yet more useful thoughts and info from other commentators. And, like Sue, she has deleted her Pinterest account. I've decided to keep mine, for now, but am working through my pins, deleting the few that aren't properly credited and seeking permission to leave others where they are. Easy for me as I'm not a big 'Pinner' and I've always been careful about copyrights and credits, but I could do better and I'm determined that I will. To remind myself of that I've added the Link with Love logo to my sidebar ... it even comes in knitsofacto green!
The pictures in this post are from Pinterest, picked up oh so easily via the Pinterest embed tool. Luckily I know the originator is happy for me to borrow these images to illustrate my point ... they're mine!
Oh, and I've activated embedded comments so we can all join in the conversation and reply to each other. Sadly the last time I did that a few folk found commenting impossible, if that happens this time please do let me know - there's a Contact box in my sidebar - and I'll deactivate it again. Still no word verification you'll be pleased to hear, isn't the new Blogger version just awful.
* I’m paraphrasing for brevity but you can read the whole thing here in Member content and General Prohibitions.
Do you know Annie I'm really thinking about giving up Pinterest!
ReplyDeleteI read Sue's (Mouse) blog yesterday and did go through my pins afterwards.
I really thought Pinterest was one of the good guys but I now know otherwise!!
Vivienne x
P.S. What is wrong with blogger, all the blogspot blogs I have looked at this evening have no images!!
I finally got some pics up Vivienne, by importing them directly from Pinterest, the irony of which is not lost on me!
DeleteWell, didn't know that. I doubt it will stop pinning however. It's way too much fun.
ReplyDeleteBrenda
I think the sad thing is, this isn't just unique to pinterest. Its a chance we all take when we post things online. That's why I always embed my art business name across my paintings. I've seen too many crazy things happen--- like etsy shops pop up with an artist's work on them and her signature mysteriously edited out-- to not do so. I dont mind people pinning my items as opposed to a third party entity thinking they own the rights to my image, that is not right at all. especially when you have no control over how your image got in the pinning pool. That said, I think pinterest can be used for good, because I've happened onto so many neat projects and blogs-- because ofcourse, the pin has been credited properly. At any rate, it is a lot to think about! All I can control is me, and I always try to do right by people in hopes that they will do the same.
ReplyDeleteGosh, this topic just grows and grows. Mind you, I have yet to visit Pinterest.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate all that you've written about sharing inspiration, and cannot count the hours and pleasure I have found in places like The Metropolitan Museum of Art.
It's going to be interesting to see what develops.
xo
gosh, a lot of information annie. thank you for sharing. i keep meaning to sign up, but i'm still not on there. maybe i'll put it off a while longer.
ReplyDeleteAnother blogging friend recently wrote a similar post. She is dealing with the dilemma by adding a large though subtle watermark to all her photos.
ReplyDeleteI haven't joined / signed up for Pinterest because I can't even keep up with blog reading. Now I have another good reason to avoid it!
I suppose that putting anything out on the web lets us in for this type of thing. It's so easy to copy a picture from someone else's site.
I think this yet again comes down to people not being aware of the bigger picture....whenever there is a 'new' panic about Facebook or some other networking site, I'm amazed that people don't see that things you put on here can be seen by just about anyone....mind copyright gained is a whole different matter and one worth worrying about....I was squirmingly horrified that some horrendous crochet that I had done and posted about with pics so everyone would have a giggle, was under google search after a day.....embarrassing rather than business threatening, but comes back to the same thing.
ReplyDeleteI completely understand everything you've talked about here and completely respect it. I do however feel slightly different. If I was making a living out of my pictures or my blog or wished to publish and generate an income from my musings and photos I would be up in arms, but then by the same token I wouldn't put my musings or photos 'out' there without the necessary protection in place...though with art and design this can at times be impossible. From what I remember as a designer someone can simply change a colour in your design and a copyright be void. The internet is impossible to legislate against if we are to believe what we read, this we must be aware if we post a photo. If we don't want to take the possibility of our images being copied then we mustn't post them because there will always be those around who will nick them or change them.....I know when I was a student it was impossible to prevent peers from taking your ideas. But then at the same token, is there really any new ideas. I look at Pinterest as a constant, evolving mood board. I am chuffed to bits on the rare occasion that I have noticed someone as posted a pic of one of my makes. I am a lot more laid back about these things these days. We have a choice as to whether we post a photo or piece of writing. If we decide the risk of someone taking a pic is too big or offensive to us then we have the choice not to post them on the worldwide web for world wide viewing. If we don't like it we don't have to do it, or we take the risk knowing the calculated perceived risk we take. For me right now I get too much pleasure from Pinterest, it's worth the risk for me to continue blogging and pinning, my words and my photos. I do not wish to benefit financially from them in any way at this present time. I know as artists we can be protective and sensitive about our creative musings, photos and wot not but for some reason I feel we have a need to put our stuff out there too....my blog and my pinning of my makes enables me to do this. It's not about money or personal recognition. I know what is mine, I am comfortable with this......I always tell my children imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. If someone has the intent to copy or be inspired by us and our creations do we really want o stop this. If on the other hand we wish to make money from it then that's another thing. If we want the personal recognition for it then that is another thing as well. We can't always have our cake and eat it. I'm willing to have my cake and take the risk. Above all I feel we must remember we have a choice. I choose not to get up in arms about it.
ReplyDeleteJust processing my thoughts Annie! Hope you are well & happy lovely x x x x
Jo x x x
Jo, I agree, totally, I launch a lot of stuff onto the web knowing that it is no longer 'mine' the moment I do so. In fact I'm a big fan of creative commons and am thinking of changing back to a cc license here at knitsofacto. Heck, my knitting patterns are all free and basically unlicensed. And that's what bothers me personally ... I'm choosing to give my stuff away and Pinterest is setting themselves up to override that and make money from it if they choose, which seems a bit naughty don't you think?
DeleteI suppose to an extent it does make it naughty but such is the business world. We know what we're getting ourselves into. There will always be businesses out there with small print in place to protect their asses but then by the same token why shouldn't they have that protection in place seeing as they are the facilitators to the pinning and their business. Life or business isn't always ethical or moral.I guess if I was really bothered or passionate about it I would stop pinning and blogging my pics (I don't do facebook, I bloody hate the place!) but I accept the risk and continue to enjoy it. It doesn't bother me. It would have done many years ago when I was extremely protective over my work or designs and wanted the personal recognition, but those feelings were all tied up in myself as an individual with the life experiences I had had up until then. I do like the spirit of 'do you mind if I knit's' comment.
DeleteI guess what I think I'm trying to say is maybe we need to look to ourselves as individuals and ask ourselves what it is we want from blogging or pinning or anything creative that we put 'out' there. If it's money or personal recognition then maybe we need to do things differently. Why is it that this subject may make some angry. What is it that resonates with these feelings that touches such a raw nerve. We could learn a lot about ourselves as individuals. I wonder if we can remember a time of perceived injustice that made us feel the same way in our past. Do we wish to stand up for ourselves this time, which perhaps we didn't do in the past or do we accept past actions and move forward knowing we made choices. I find peoples motivations fascinating.
Anyway I'll shut up now. I find peoples reactions to things fascinating!
Byeeeeee for now!! Another rambling which I'm not sure makes sense or not!!!! :)
oh so much to think about. I love pinterest. I don't want it to be one of the bad guys.........
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting this. I have been wondering about pin etiquette.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that I agree with Jo - the second you upload something onto the Internet without any form of protection you are, in essence, offering it for use elsewhere. It is just one of those things. I wonder how much the watermarks and annotated photos really work too because they are easy to edit out if you are so inclined.
ReplyDeleteI hope you continue to post lovely images and all I can do is promise to credit you if I pin them.
Nice to read a topical post, have a great weekend.
Nicki x
I joined quite early and it does seem to be changing and people are using it "to generate business" which is a shame, but inevitable. I do love it but would be just as happy if my pins were private (that sounds v odd!). It is a great resource but I think you're right we all need to be more vigilant about sources but sadly not everyone will ....
ReplyDeleteAnother point about Pinterest is that the filtering out of spam and pornography is slow. I assume this is because of the sheer volume of pinning traffic going on and the speed in which it can be done. Maybe I have been unlucky (or lucky!) but I have stumbled upon pretty graphic pornographic images which I reported, and the other day I was looking at the fitness board and found it flooded with images from a swim gear outlet pinned by themselves on a board bearing the company name -in other words using Pinterest as a free catalogue.
ReplyDeleteI just felt in the end that my Pinterest boards were not that important to me so I deleted my account. As I said in my post yesterday it was a massive time waster and heaven knows I waste enough time on the internet as it is.
On the time wasting ... me too Sue, me too! Hanging out in blogtopia is the bit I most enjoy and intend to concentrate on, but even having written the above I'm thinking that limited and careful use of Pinterest might be okay ... for me I think the jury is still out.
DeleteAh-ha! Now this is very interesting! Eddie Izzard does a great comedy sketch about how noone reads the small print. The only thing about people using an image that they have stolen is that word will soon spread and lots of people will go to work to marginalise them on the internet and wreck their reputation. That's probably the only protection, bad will is like a virus to companies, and can do damage to them. I think that's the whole concept of the internet, everything is based on trust, and if people don't realise they're stupid to break this, then hopefully they will suffer the consequences. I was once kindly alerted to someone using one of my images as their blog header, without permission. The person took it off their site immediately I questioned her about it. People may well have to be named and shamed to keep them in line if they behave very badly.
ReplyDeleteI was so pleased to see how wonderfully romantic your Valentines day is, you give me faith that romance isn't dead, as I was led to believe by a lot of people recently.
You're wonderful Annie!
Love Vanessa xxx
I once tackled someone about using my photos and she basically said if you put it on the internet, it's fair game!!
ReplyDeleteAnnie,
ReplyDeleteWonderful. I must confess to never using Facebook, Pinterest, etc., etc., As you have so eloquently put it there are always at least two sides to a story; two or more truths. Of course most artistic souls draw inspiration from others in a goriously huge game of dominoes BUT the hard work involved in any creative process worthy of note must be respected and identified. This is the main reason why I do not pin... that and a lack of time.
I remain focused on blogging and drawing inspiration RESPECTFULLY from other blogs. (Lack of time made me slip in a couple of grammatical mistakes in in my last post and I was biting my nails about it for a while.)
Focus and respect. Those are my two truths for today :-)
Stephanie
Thanks for posting this Annie, it seriously has been playing on my mind too and after reading Wendy's post at her blog 15 Coast Road, I, like Sue from the Quince tree decided to delete myself. I REALLY don't like Facebook so I am so pleased to be rid of that too as I had to register on Pinterest via Facebook. I must confess that I never read the small print with Pinterest and just did it for inspiration and a bit of fun. Maybe it was a bit drastic me deleting myself but I couldn't be bothered to go through my loads of pinned pictures and check for copyright etc. I do agree that once you have put anything on the internet it becomes "available to all". I don't want to let the sinister side of the internet affect me as I do love my blogging and speaking/communicating with ever so lovely people like yoo hoo xox
ReplyDeleteThanks once again for some more info on Pinterest...Imust try and end word verification with my blog as it's become hideous and I think you almostneed to be a robot to clarify the words these days !!!! xxx
Very instructional et interesting article Annie.
ReplyDeleteYesterday, I just discovered that quite a lot of my pictures were pinned and repinned on pinterest. (I have a pinterest account but never log in or use it). Seeing all my pictures used this way can be flattering, but actually, it doesn't makes me happy at all. Noone has ever asked me if they could use my pics. Fortunately, the "borrowed" pics I was able to find, were sourced correctly (my ravelry account or my blog), but I guess, it will be harder to find the "stolen" one...
I don't know what to think about this, but it makes me feel uncomfortable.
Putting something on the internet and saying "it's fair game" is such a load of old codswallop! Imagine if we had that attitude with library books, museums, art galleries...all because they are in the public domain too! There would be chaos and probably carnage. People think that because it's virtual there's no harm done but it does impact on people in a real way.
ReplyDeleteAs Penelope said, I also wrote a post about this issue this morning after thinking it over for a couple of days, and have deleted my Pinterest account. They really need to sort out the whole thing.
I've linked to your post in my update Wendy :D There are so many aspects of this to be considered, I suspect the debate will continue for some time.
DeleteHi Annie, so glad this conversation is gathering pace and people are giving it some thought. It's far too easy to give up and think the web is too big and unmanageable to regulate or challenge. Interesting comments here too. Sue x
ReplyDeleteCopyright and intellectual property are always hotly debated but just because you've posted an image on the internet does not make it 'fair game' and just because an individual does not have the same ability to defend their rights as a large corporation such as Disney does not mean that they are not entitled to the same rights. I operate under the Mrs-do-as-you-would-be-done-by rule (she from Charles Kingsley's The Water Babes) and think it's right to act in the way you'd like others to act towards you. Sadly there are plenty of people out there who don't share this viewpoint :(
ReplyDeleteMe too Julie, Mrs Do-as-you-would-be-done-by and Bambi - If you can't say something nice don't say nothin' at all - are good guides to have.
DeleteIf you do not want images from your blog or website to be pinned, there is a simple code to prevent pinning from your site.
ReplyDeleteI can understand some of the concerns surrounding Pinterest, but I also think there is a bit of anti-pinning hysteria being whipped up. The fact that you can buy a postcard of a Picasso, doesn't make the original less valuable.
Interesting discussions though. I'm like Julie - I don't do to other people what I'd be upset about them doing to me. On the internet or in real life.
I agree this could get hysterical - and no it doesn't need to.
DeleteBut there are serious issues here that really do need to be properly addressed and resolved. It's good that there is dawning awareness of the problem - maybe all the blog posts will help bring about the change that is needed and then everyone can carry on pinning happily. :)
And I've found that piece of code you referred to....brilliant. Thanks. One more thing I overlooked when I should have been reading all the small print. I will add this info to my blog post - it might make people feel more in control.
I'm still pinning Ali, but I do think it's a debate that needs to be had. I like the latest at Link with Love ... never stop sharing just stop sharing incorrectly.
DeleteAnd for anyone who wants the code we're talking about it's in Pinterest Help, just scroll down to 'What if I don't want images from my site to be pinned'.
I've had a look at the various social media and blogging is the only one I find bearable at all - it's somehow more like real life, less like a facade, enriching enough to warrant putting a fragment of oneself and ones images out there. I deleted Pinterest along with Facebook - to me, they were computer games for grown-ups, and, as Sue says, ate up the time.
ReplyDeleteAnd thanks for bringing up the topic, Annie: I had never know the extent to which we are expected to sell ourselves.
I agree wholeheartedly with Jo. Only she put it a lot better than I ever could. Once you have pressed the button the images have gone into the mists of the internet. It is like expecting someone not to copy your schoolwork and allowing the whole class to read it.
ReplyDeleteHello Annie...This is all very interesting to me...I have not joined Pinterest but I know that some of my photographs are on there and even receive messages from people who say they found me on there (?)...I just don't understand it...
ReplyDeletetaking other people's images...all a bit odd..
By the way Annie, I'm trying to get rid of the 'word verification box' on my blog...I used to know where it was on the settings but can't seem to find it now...It's going to drive people crazy!
Susan x
Ah, that one's simple Susan ... click on Design in the top right hand corner and then on the Settings tab top left, you should now see a set of sub-tabs including Comments, click on that and scroll toward the bottom of the page for the Word verification on/off. Hope that helps x
DeleteThank you Annie..I have hopefully sorted it out now...I have the new Blogger interface and can't seem to see it anywhere. I finally found the place where I could revert back to the old version to remove it as you have explained here...It all seems so time consuming and unnecessary...I have been asking Mr.H's opinion whenever I'm typing the letters in!
ReplyDeleteHave a lovely Sunday,
Susan x
Hi Annie - wow what a can of worms! I love Pinterest as a place to create mood boards (which I have always done). I try to credit all my images, but sometimes it is impossible as, if they came from Tumblr. or Flickr. they may not have been credited in the first instance. I do think credit where credit's due in all situations and like many others feel that I try to treat others as I would be done to. I have kept magazine tear sheets for years and haven't a clue where almost all originated... it's tricky isn't it?
ReplyDeleteAnyway I popped over to say hello and thank you for commenting over at my place,
Sarah -x-
hey Annie - I know I owe you an email but thought I'd wade in here too!
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with Cupcake JJ - and I do make my living from the internet. I accept that my stuff is out there - and also accept that it will possibly be copied (although good luck to anyone who wants to make a living out of blocks!!) but it's a risk I take by blogging, flickering etc.
Equally I spend many (happy) hours on pinterest - and while I would never willfully copy someones work I'm undoubtedly influenced/inspired/motivated to create by the things I see there, as everywhere.
I think there are very few genuinely new ideas - the key thing for me is to add your own creativity to any project and maintain integrity. I thought pinning was safe because it credits the original source (I realise this isn't always the case - nothing is infallible) and make sure my images have my name on them. It's all I can do. I'm chuffed when someone pins my work....even if it is to their 'DIY crafts' board!!!
fee x
Hi there Annie
ReplyDeleteI have visited this post several times and then gone away to have a good old think. I personally think that Pinterest is both good and bad. One of the dresses I have made has been pinned several hundred times now I reckon and the traffic coming through my blog has increased dramatically as a result. Now, in the process of setting up an online store this can only be good because those people who look through my blog will soon see my shop and, with luck, that may generate some business or at least awareness of who and where I am. And I say bad because obviously photos/work can be abused terribly by unscrupulously minded people out there but to be honest that can happen through any method on the internet, not just Pinterest. The internet is a scary space, the knowledge that my photos could be broadcasted around the world and it's because of this I never put my childrens' faces on my blog, nor mine for that matter because you never know who is doing what with them .. a very worrying thought! I do feel that I need to completely digest the 'small print' of Pinterest though.
I love Pinterest, as you may have gathered and for now will continue with it, although I do intend to go through my pins to ensure the source can be located and will delete any that don't. I have to say that if I pin directly from a blog I will ask if it is ok, although no one has EVER asked the same of me, despite my having a copyright clause on my sidebar. Having said that, I must confess my delight when something I have done is pinned .. it is the ultimate compliment I think!
Yerss - I've just discovered that some of my images have materialised on Pinterest, needless to say entirely without my permission and without any attempt made to contact me.
ReplyDeleteFortunately all the images I use on the web are pretty poor resolution, but I'm still annoyed. I was flattered at first, and then I got angry. I make every attempt to contact and/or credit whenever I use someone else's image, so why the hell can't other people?
And you'd have thought that Pinterest users, generally being creative types, would have had some understanding of this instead of 'stealing' other people's work. Yes, they could in all likelihood have used my images - but I'd like to have been asked. Ot contacted at the very least, instead of finding out through my blog stats. Gr.
Oh, I meant to add - that piece of code referred to earlier doesn't stop people downloading and then uploading; it just stops them pinning directly from your site. Watermarks, I think, may be the only answer, and that won't stop it...
ReplyDeleteAnnie, you are right to address this issue, it's a very important one and there is some way to go yet before it will be resolved. Sharing creativity is inspiring and rewarding, and pinning and so on are great ways to enjoy and share things that would otherwise go unappreciated, or seen by only a few. But there needs to be legislation to ensure everyone's art and design is rightfully credited back to them. I could ramble on but will stop there!!
ReplyDeleteBtw when I mentioned the Pinterest issue to my hb he thought I'd said 'Pinter-esque'!
Thank you for your thoughtful post. And how delightful is the little nest with eggs at the top...a small object of desire I would love to have here to gaze on!
Helen x
I am feeling a little confused now although I am not losing any sleep over this issue fortunately. I had a discussion with my eldest daughter yesterday who has a very different opinion to mine and says that one should simply add watermarks to one's pictures. I have taken a jaunt over to Pinterest this afternoon and am a little taken aback to see several of my pictures over there. Nobody has asked my permission for this.
ReplyDeleteHave you reached a slightly clear conclusion Annie after reading everyone's thoughtful comments?
ps My daughter thinks your blog is the bee's knees.
Annie, I was having a nice veg in bed yesterday when I read your post and then as one thing led to another I became more stirred up by this outrage! I have change my copyright notices, written a blog post about it myself and am very close to shutting my Pinterest account. Astonishing that other people can give anyone permission on your behalf just by pinning things :0 Thanks for alerting me.
ReplyDeleteI've awarded you the Liebster Blog Award
ReplyDeletehttp://cutekidsclocks.blogspot.com/2012/02/tutorial-tuesday-liebster-blog-award.html
Annie,
ReplyDeleteI've just spent a lot of time reading and re-reading your post and all the links to other blogs and articles about Pinterest. I must say I'm still a little confused on the subject, but much of it is crystal clear. I think it's wonderful that you've written such a thoughtful and well researched post on the subject and I'm going to be thinking about it all day.
xo
annie d.
Much to think about. I saw the article in the NYTimes last week about how Pinterest is 'monetizing' but the whole copyright issue went right by me. Thanks for the thought provoking post.
ReplyDeleteOMG....now i'm worried....i have been with Pinterest now for about two weeks and i absolutly love it..i love putting all the images that inspire me together in one place, but i'm worried that someone might report me .....i think for now, like you, i shall keep my boards for abit and see what occurs...thanks for low down.
ReplyDeletePixie